Jason Lisle: Faith vs. Reason

They must be running out of things to say at Answers in Genesis (AIG), the online creationist ministry of Ken Ham (ol’ Hambo). They’re re-posting an oldie by Jason Lisle, who moved last year from AIG to the Institute for Creation Research. Apparently, AIG kept the rights to Jason’s old material, so they’re using it again.

This one is from September, 2010, but somehow we missed it the first time around. We’ve posted several times about Jason’s other writings, for example: Jason Lisle’s “Instant Starlight” Paper, and also Jason Lisle Tells Us How To Think.

Jason’s article is titled Faith vs. Reason. There’s nothing new in it, really, but it’s a good reminder of how the creationist mind functions — if you can call Jason’s article an example of a mind functioning. It’s rather long, so we’ll give you only a few excerpts, with bold font added by us and scripture references omitted. Jason begins with what seems to be a dilemma:

Many Christians perceive a conflict between reason and faith. On the one hand, God tells us to reason. We are to have a good reason for what we believe, and we are to be always ready to share that reason with other people. So we attempt to show unbelievers that our belief in the Scriptures is reasonable, justified, and logically defensible.

On the other hand, we are supposed to have faith. We are supposed to trust God and not lean on our own understanding. The Bible tells us that the “just shall live by faith.” It seems that we are supposed to trust God regardless of whether His words make sense to our understanding.

So, which is it? Are we to live by reason or by faith? Are we supposed to rely upon our intellect, drawing rational conclusions, rejecting those things that don’t make sense? Or are we to accept the teachings of Scripture without regard to logic and reason, even if it does not make any sense?

Most of you think you know the answer — especially since the relevant definition of faith is belief that is not based on proof or verifiable evidence. So how does Jason handle this conflict? Just watch him — but be warned, this one is a brain bender:

This apparent conflict troubles many people. But it stems from a critical misconception about the meaning of both faith and reason. When both terms are properly defined in their biblical context, any apparent conflict disappears. Yes, we are to have good reasons for what we believe, and we are also to have faith. In fact, without the latter, we could not have the former.

Did you get that? According to Jason, you can’t reason without faith. Let’s read on:

[Some people] say that Christianity cannot be proven, that reason leads us most of the way to God and then we must make a “leap of faith” in order to say that Jesus is Lord. This is a very common view among Christians. But this is not what God’s Word teaches about faith.

The Bible itself tells us what faith is. Hebrews 11:1 tells us that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So biblical faith is not blind but is strongly warranted confidence. The phrase “hoped for” does not imply a mere wishful thinking as in “I sure hope the weather is nice next week.” Rather, the Greek word (ελπιζω) indicates a confident expectation: the kind of confidence we have when we have a good reason to believe something.

Ah, so faith is confidence based on a good reason. Okay. We continue:

Biblically, faith is having confidence in something you have not experienced with your senses. Biblical faith is not “blind”; it’s not the act of “believing without a reason.” Just the opposite; biblical faith is the act of believing in something unseen for which we do have a good reason. For example, when we believe that God will keep a promise, this constitutes faith because we cannot “see” it and yet we have a good reason for it: God has demonstrated that He keeps His promises.

Makes perfect sense, right? Here’s more:

As many people have misunderstandings of faith, they also have misunderstandings of reason. Reason is a tool that God has given us that allows us to draw conclusions and inferences from other information, such as the information He has given us in His Word. Reason is an essential part of Christianity … .

In fact, I could not know that I am saved apart from using reason. … I have genuinely acknowledged that Jesus is Lord, and I believe that God raised Him from the dead. Therefore, I am saved. I must use logical reasoning to draw this conclusion.

The logic is undeniable. Moving along:

We are never to attempt to reason in opposition to the Word of God. That is to say we are not to treat God’s Word as a mere hypothesis that is subject to our fallible understanding of the universe.

[...]

We are never to “reason” in such an absurd, sinful way. Instead, we are supposed to reason from God’s Word, taking it as our ultimate unquestionable starting point. Any alternative is arbitrary and self-refuting. Reason is not a substitute for God; rather, it is a gift from God.

Yes, that makes perfect sense. If we start our reasoning from God’s word, then everything falls into place — including creationism. Another excerpt:

Biblical faith and biblical reasoning actually work very well together. In fact, faith is a prerequisite for reason. In order to reason about anything we must have faith that there are laws of logic which correctly prescribe the correct chain of reasoning. Since laws of logic cannot be observed with the senses, our confidence in them is a type of faith.

Aaaargh!! Actually, the laws of logic are an axiom, without which reason is impossible. Were one to attempt thinking without logic as an axiom, then literally anything could be an acceptable concept. Logic is an essential axiom, which must be posited (without proof) in order to proceed with any argument. There is no faith involved in this. If the laws of logic are rejected as an axiom, they nevertheless would be accepted, because only logic rules out contradictions. Well, creationists have a way out of that. When observable reality conflicts with their faith, they ignore the contradiction (and reality), brushing it all aside as a test of their faith.

But let’s get back to Jason:

Since reason would be impossible without laws of logic, which stem from the Christian faith, we have a very good reason for our faith: without our faith we could not reason.

The laws of logic stem from Christianity? How very odd. The laws of logic were first formulated by Aristotle, and we strongly suspect that he wasn’t influenced by Christianity. It would be very odd if he were, considering that he died in 322 BC. Here’s the end of the article:

Even unbelievers (inconsistently) rely upon Christian principles, such as logic, whenever they reason about anything. So the Christian has a good reason for his or her faith. In fact, the Christian faith system makes reason possible.

Your mind is whirling, isn’t it? But please, dear reader, put your mind at ease. Just accept what Jason says and then you’ll never have to worry about such things again.

Copyright © 2013. The Sensuous Curmudgeon. All rights reserved.

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Rev. David Rives — Would Jesus Believe Evolution?

We know this video by the brilliant and articulate leader of David Rives Ministries is what you’ve been hoping for. It will thrill you like you’ve never been thrilled before.

This one is titled What Would Jesus Believe? Admit it, dear reader — you’ve always wanted to know the answer to that. This may be the most important video the rev has ever produced. The rev tells us that Jesus was a creationist, and our DNA is so complex that it’s impossible for it to have come into existence by chance. And the rev reminds us that the scientists’ “wisdom of this world” is foolishness.

The video runs for two illuminating and inspiring minutes — guaranteed to satisfy your spiritual hunger. You don’t want to miss it!

Please feel free to use the comments as an Intellectual Free Fire Zone.

Copyright © 2013. The Sensuous Curmudgeon. All rights reserved.

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Creationist Wisdom #331: Too Stoned

This is another letter-to-the-editor from the Yuma Sun of Yuma, Arizona. It’s titled Evolution makes no sense with God. We’ll give you a few excerpts, enhanced with our Curmudgeonly commentary, and some bold font for emphasis. As we usually do we’ll omit the writer’s name and city. Okay, here we go:

Evolution makes no sense to me and if Darwin didn’t believe it, why should I? Darwin came up with it for the money and the blind masses bought into it.

Great beginning! We’re going to enjoy this one. Hang on, here comes more:

There is no other explanation for us being here except through Creation. There is too much evidence to even entertain the thought of evolution.

We love this guy! Let’s read on:

As far as how old the universe is, only three entities know – can you say Holy Trinity? Who really cares how old the universe is, 50,000 or 17 trillion years? It’s all a number, sorta like the deficit.

Yeah — who cares? Is this great or what? We gotta continue:

Remember, our time is not God’s time. His one second could be like our 1,000 years. As for me, I’m going to believe in Creation by our Heavenly Father, my Lord and Savior. Only through his grace go I.

Have it your way, letter-writer! Here’s more:

As for evolution being taught in school when I went, I can’t remember last week let alone what or if they taught evolution in the 60s and 70s. I was too stoned.

Now you know where our title came from. Moving along:

In my early Christian life one thing held me back. So, if God created us who created God etc. That’s where Miss Connelly is right it is about faith and call a cow a cow, my higher power is God! If a person is embarrassed to acknowledge him in public he will be embarrassed for you.

We have no idea who Miss Connelly is, but it doesn’t seem to matter. The letter-writer has neatly solved the problem of who created God. Here’s another excerpt:

Isn’t it great that we live in a country where we can praise and worship whoever we want? We are truly a blessed nation even still.

Yes, that is great. Here’s the stunning end of the letter:

A lot of people think God has left the building but you can still see his awesome and wondrous works in our lives. If you doubt that go to a maternity ward and tell me if those little ones are created or evolved?

There’s not much we can add. This is truly a letter that speaks for itself.

Copyright © 2013. The Sensuous Curmudgeon. All rights reserved.

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WorldNetDaily: David Barton on Thomas Jefferson

Our new Retard-o-tron™ had just been installed when it proved itself to be of great service. Its blaring sirens and flashing lights sent us rushing to the computer, which was linked to an article in WorldNetDaily (WND) — described in the Cast of Characters section of our Intro page. It’s in their honor that our jolly buffoon logo is displayed above this post.

The article is Learn the truth about Thomas Jefferson. It’s a “WND EXCLUSIVE,” which means that no other publication will touch the thing. Also, there’s no indication of an author.

The article has an interesting sub-title: Get the book so politically incorrect, the publisher pulled it from the shelves! As soon as we saw that we knew what book they were talking about. Let’s see what WND has to tell us. Here are some excerpts, with bold font added by us:

Thomas Jefferson stands falsely accused of several crimes, among them infidelity and disbelief. Prominent historian David Barton sets the record straight in the hard-hitting book “The Jefferson Lies: Exposing the Myths You’ve Always Believed About Thomas Jefferson”.

Ah yes, David Barton. For just a hint of what we’ve had to say about him, see David Barton: Favorite Historian of Theocrats. And don’t overlook something we mentioned in that post, by Barbara Forrest, in her revealing article: Governor Jindal’s Friends in Low Places.

Barton has previously claimed that Jefferson and the other Founders were not only creationists, but that they actually rejected evolution — generations before Darwin published. In response to that we wrote Thomas Jefferson on Young-Earth Creationism. As we’ve said said before, relying on Barton is the last desperate act of a fool. Okay, back to WND:

It’s so hot [Barton's book, The Jefferson Lies] and so politically incorrect, the publisher pulled it from the shelves of every bookstore in America.

The publisher pulled it because it’s too hot? Really? You might want to read this article from August, 2012 in The Christian Post, which is presumably an unbiased source for this subject: Publisher Pulls David Barton’s Book on Jefferson. They say:

Thomas Nelson decided Thursday to stop publication and distribution of David Barton’s The Jefferson Lies. The book, about Thomas Jefferson, had come under criticism from both Christian and secular historians for taking quotes out of context and making unsubstantiated generalizations about Jefferson’s life.

Christian historians claim the book goes too far in concluding that Jefferson was a believer in Christ as Savior, citing clear evidence – including a national archives Bible Jefferson owned that cut out all New Testament miracles performed by Jesus – that Jefferson did not believe in the deity of Christ.

After Thomas Nelson began hearing criticisms of the book, it reviewed the book and discovered “some historical details included in the book that were not adequately supported,” Casey Francis Harrell, Thomas Nelson’s director of corporate communications, told Thomas Kidd, associate professor of history at Baylor University, who broke the story for World Magazine, an evangelical publication.

[...]

Kidd also wrote an article for World Magazine on Tuesday that brought broader attention to the controversy. He reported on a wide array of evangelical scholars who found Barton’s work to be lacking sufficient evidence to justify his claims about Jefferson and U.S. history more generally.

In the article, Jay Richards, senior fellow at the Discovery Institute, had reportedly “grown increasingly troubled about Barton’s writings.” After consulting 10 evangelical scholars, he concluded that Barton’s books and videos contain “embarrassing factual errors, suspiciously selective quotes, and highly misleading claims.”

Creationists often teach a bizarre, distorted, flamingly false version of history, because their fantasies are contradicted by the real world (see Is America a “Christian Nation”?). But sometimes they go so far that even their fellow creationists recoil in revulsion — but not all of them. WND says the publisher pulled Barton’s book, not because it was filled with falsehoods, but because it was too “hot” and ” politically incorrect.” Let’s read on to see what else WND has to say:

But the WND Superstore has plenty of copies and is making them available to you so you can know the truth about one of America’s founding fathers.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That tells you all you need to know about the WND Superstore. The next few sentences were plucked from WND’s last two paragraphs:

In “The Jefferson Lies” noted early America historian Barton scours out the truth. … In “The Jefferson Lies” Barton has gone through the historical records, combed the original documents and letters and examined the recent evidence, and his findings will upset the establishment. … As a reader, you will have the joy and surprise of meeting him for the very first time.

So there you are. Where does a defunct, discredited, and disgraced creationist historian go when even his fellow-creationists turn against him? He goes to WorldNetDaily, the bottom of the barrel, where he can always find a warm welcome among his peers. Oh, all right, this is a link to Barton’s book at the Superstore.

Copyright © 2013. The Sensuous Curmudgeon. All rights reserved.

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