You Gotta Read This One

We’ve never done this before because … well, it’s no fun posting about articles with which we agree. But this one is too good to ignore: Even setting evolution aside, basic geology disproves creationism. It’s by David R Montgomery.

All we’ll do is give you the first paragraph, then you’re on your own:

In the ongoing conflict between science and creationism, evolution is usually a main point of contention. The idea that all life on Earth evolved from a common ancestor is a major problem for creationists. As a geologist, though, I think that the rocks beneath our feet offer even better arguments against creationism. For the creationist model doesn’t square with what you can see for yourself. And this has been known since before Darwin wrote a word about evolution.

Okay, we’re done. Now click over to PhysOrg and read it. Then tell us: Was it good for you too?

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21 responses to “You Gotta Read This One

  1. I’m sure our creationist friends will be more than happy to explain why all of geology is wrong.

    Our ID friends will gladly explain how geology shows intelligent design.

  2. “Hey, no fair using evidence!”, exclaims Ken Ham.

  3. I have the feeling that the one kind of evidence for “deep time” that really disturbs YEC is the distant star light problem. Perhaps it is the easiest to understand: it is a “word problem” appropriate before middle school. (And I guess that everyone accepts that stars really are what the astronomers say.)

    But I liked this essay’s pointing out that what the YEC say is not determinative of what the Bible says. The first fundamentalists even (about 1900-1940) were not concerned about the age of the Earth. (That seemed to be a reserve of the Seventh Day Adventists.) It is interesting how YEC became so dominant in fundamentalism so suddenly without any basis.

  4. Yes it was good for me too

  5. TomS, dating the rise of YEC isn’t easy, but it’s interesting to note that it became a major plank of Protestantism, changing from, “To be a proper Christian, you must be YEC,” to, “To be a Christian at all, you must be YEC,” around the Civil Rights Era.

  6. Very good for me, thank you. If I had the time right now, I could jot down a few more points from basic science in various fields that disprove YEC, but it will have to wait.

  7. Yes, the age of the earth moved for me, too…

  8. I dunno, seems to me all of science contradicts the YEC’s cartoonish vision of the universe.

  9. Never mind the geology. The basic physics of Genesis 1 is badly wrong.

  10. I presume this is the same David Montgomery who wrote “The Rocks Don’t Lie: A Geologist Looks at Noah’s Flood.” A good read, IMHO. He nicely dismantles the major arguments for a young earth. Of course, Amazon has a few bad reviews of the book, such as one that begins “The author starts out by refusing to accept the possibility that the Bible could be a genuine record of history.”

    No sorry reviewer — he didn’t refuse to accept that possibility. He just made convincing arguments that the bible’s account of Noah’s flood cannot possibly be true.

  11. @dweller42: More likely it corresponds with this:

  12. @Hideo Gump: yes, it’s the same. He writes it himself.

    Two remarks.

    1. The IDiots from Seattle won’t be bothered.
    2. But …. but …. geology is historical science!

  13. Another crash and burn SC. I’ve posted a comment for your geology post, effusive as ever, on the wrong and very previous , article. Bombs away.

    [*Voice from above*] It shall be placed here. Och Will says:

    Thanks SC. Thanks Montgomery..
    Geology is the Force Recon of the sciences when it comes to creationism search and destroy technologies.
    It is the laser guided ArcLight Strike. A 20,000 lb Curmudgeonite HE delivered right on target every single time. Its also incredibly empowering to have the kind of predictive power it provides the scientist seeking to understand the earth’s crust and interior.
    One cannot practice geology and support Hambonian mental quiescence.
    Thank you Lyell.

  14. docbill1351

    Sure, basic geology disproves creationism, however it doesn’t stop creationist thought. The problem is religious, not scientific. Certain conservative Christian groups, like the Southern Baptists and the tons of non-denominational mom-and-pop churches, have painted themselves into a corner by requiring parts of their faith to be literally true. More specifically, if man is not “fallen” (Adam and Eve) then the resurrection was pointless and the entire theological structure collapses, which is true, it does.

    Bishop John Spong realized this years ago when he advocated for a new “language of Christianity” that dispensed with the need for literal interpretations and basically redefined the ancient dogma to fit a modern, scientific society. I think he’s correct on that point but it would take careful, scholastic thought and work which is way beyond the interests of the lazy fundamentalists.

    So, as we’ve already seen creationists will simply ignore science and continue to spread their flood myths. No amount of evidence or proof will cause them to change their dogma.

  15. While there is ample evidence that Santa Claus doesn’t exist you still have Santa believers. Creationists have always denied geology right up there with biology, and astronomy. I do like the essence of the article, brief with a very simple demonstration of how it discredits the Biblical flood story. Even so, it is still easily ignored by the faithful.

  16. A good article; succinct and accurate. Being lazy morons, however, the creationists will be unmoved.

  17. @docbill1351
    The essay points out that it is YEC which is the novel, 20th century “concept”, which is lacking a basis.
    “Whatever occurs to me” is not a serious approach to the Bible.

  18. This conversation has been er entertaining. I flagged the Montgomery article a few hours ago. No YEC has tried to address its contents so far. Instead they are threatening to ban me (after I reacted angrily to a false/mistaken claim by one of them that I ‘hate all Christians’ which I absolutely do not)… (comments) (original blog – apparently when trying to investigate the unseen past – even if it only extends back 6,000 years – science is utterly useless, despite the blogger Steve having exclaimed earlier this afternoon/evening that he ‘loves’ science)

  19. YEC propaganda merchant Bob Sorensen has been praising the wonderful explanatory powers of ‘Noachian Flood models by creation scientists’:

    However, this person does not have the integrity to acknowledge let alone try to address the points about the nonsense he churns out that are highlighted by the Christian blogger HERE:

    Indeed around three days ago at that Worldview Warriors conversation Sorensen falsely declared (possibly without even daring to read the blog debunking him): “I don’t need to address someone who is intent on using fallacies to demonizing me, Christians, and creationists.”

  20. Ashley !
    “Sorenson don’t need no stinkin’ badges”
    Treasure of the Sierra Madre,,,,
    Bandito A’s exclamation to Humphrey Bogart

  21. The comments on that article are down right scary.