Hey, Creationists: More Evidence for an Old Earth

From time to time we talk about evidence that is a problem for those who insist that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. For example, see Can Noah’s Flood Explain Banded Iron Stripes? Wikipedia has articles on other evidence, such as Dendrochronology (tree ring dating), which can demonstrate a chronology going back over 11,000 years, and Ice core chronology can go back hundreds of thousands of years. The TalkOrigins Index to Creationist Claims has more information, such as ocean sediments.

We have some more trouble for creationists today from Physorg: Study of stalagmites in caves in China reveals 640,000 years of Asian monsoon history. Here are some excerpts, with bold font added by us:

A team of researchers with members from China, the U.S., Austria and Singapore has used their analysis of stalagmites in a cave deep in central China to map over 640,000 years of monsoons in Asia. In their paper published in the journalNature, the team describes their analysis of the cave formations, what they found and how they were able to use what they learned to better understand other world events over the same time period.

This is the paper in Nature: Earth science: An extended yardstick for climate variability, but you need a subscription to read it. We’ll stay with PhysOrg. They say:

The annual monsoon season in Asia is a major event, bringing rains that are used to grow crops for an enormous number of people. Because of its importance, scientists would like to know more about it, such as what might happen as the planet heats up. To learn more, the researchers looked for a way to look back at what has happened in the past, and to do that, they ventured to the mountains in central China and descended into Sanbao Cave — there stalagmites have been growing up from the cave floor for hundreds of thousands of years, carrying with them, a history of the factors that led to their growth.

What can the creationists do to wiggle out of that? They’ll probably ignore it. Let’s read on:

The stalagmites grow at different rates depending on how much rain falls and leaks through the mountain above and down into the cave — during heavy rains, such as occur during monsoon seasons, layers of calcium carbonate build up, holding information about the air and rainwater at a particular point in time, which scientists can analyze to gain a good measurement of climate conditions. They can also look for dissolved uranium, which can be used to date the layers of stalagmite buildup. Together, the two sources of information can be used to create a climate timetable for past monsoon seasons, going back as far as 640,000 years — the most detailed and accurate monsoon record to date.

Two different lines of evidence, both pointing to the same result. Can creationists claim that the Flood was responsible? Sure they can. They’re good at reality denial.

There’s more in the PhysOrg article, but we’ve copied enough. Now we’ll wait for the creationist reaction — if there is any.

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12 responses to “Hey, Creationists: More Evidence for an Old Earth

  1. Dave Luckett

    Oh, pshaw! Childishly simple. Creation researchers have long established that the ice core data is false, because the surface of the Greenland icecap doesn’t necessarily melt in summer and then refreeze as new snow falls in winter, and lake varves don’t necessarily arise from seasonal variations in river flow, and tree rings are not necessarily annual. Cave formations with banded growth from rainfall, yet, when everyone knows it doesn’t rain in caves! Uranium dating, which was falsified by creation scientists sixty years ago when the evilootionists dated a freshly killed crab seal carcass at ten thousand years old. Living pond snails twenty thousand years old!

    Who do you guys think you’re kidding?

    (Poe’s Law disclaimer here.)

  2. Charles Deetz ;)

    @Dave Luckett we should have a Poe contest here sometime.

  3. “More Evidence for an Old Earth”?

    Evidence? Creationists don’t need no stinkin’ evidence!

  4. “The stalagmites grow at different rates”
    Aha! Barry Setterfield comes to the rescue. Just like the speed of light was much, much higher in the past so were those growing rates.
    Checkmate, evilutionists.

  5. Eric Lipps

    The root problem for young-earth creationists in particular when trying to use science as support for their ideas is that the numbers don’t add up. They’re forced to use all sorts of wand-waving, claiming that this measurement and that is fatally flawed, essentially because they don’t show a young earth. So, for instance, they make up stories about how these measurement techniques, which they do not understand (or in some cases do understand but hope their audience doesn’t), have been discredited but are still used by God-hating Darwinists.

    Then one gets to the biological evidence, and there’s more wand-waving by young-earth AND old-earth creationists, basically coming down to “We know evolution didn’t happen, so anything that says it did is either a lie or a foolish misinterpretation of the evidence.”

  6. They’ll appeal to “common sense” and emotions, simultaneously, while claiming that they’re just being “reasonable.”

    As usual.

    It’s hard to shift an emotional belief with evidence.

  7. @dweller42. Well, that certainly worked for the UK Leave campaign.

  8. Really, why can’t those evil scientists use their intuition? Do they really want to end up in the great lake of fire?

  9. Eric Lipps states boldly: “They’re forced to use all sorts of wand-waving.”
    Wand-waving is the modus operandi of the Intelligent Designer, so no problem.

  10. Oh, the creationists will just claim the rings were caused by the tides during Noah’s Flood. Or by waves lapping into the caves. Or cave bears licking the stalagmites. Or something.

  11. Not to defend any form of anti-evolution activism, but I need to remind everyone that a majority of committed evolution deniers have no problem with an old earth. And some even concede common descent. We certainly ought discuss the chronology at every opportunity, but not assuming that every evolution-denier denies it. Rather because it makes the YECs and OECs uncomfortable. When I ask a YEC if they ever “challenge” an OEC, or vice versa, they invariably go somewhere else to troll.

  12. Hi @Frank J!
    Yet I don’t know of any Biblical basis for evolution-denial other than one relying on the time available. The Bible says nothing about fixity of species (or any other taxon), nor about relations between species, nor about the origin or extinction of species. The Bible does not say anything relating to species when speaking of humans.