Notre-Dame Open Thread

We were about to post this with the title “Notre-Dame Free Fire Zone,” because of the fire at Notre-Dame de Paris, and also because that’s typical of the way we title our posts when here’s no news out there about The Controversy between evolution and creationism.

But at the last minute we realized we had to change the title. It may surprise you, but your Curmudgeon isn’t totally oblivious to public opinion.

Until something of interest to this blog comes along, we will have to entertain ourselves. To that end, we declare this post to be an Intellectual Free Fire Zone. We’re open for the discussion of pretty much anything — science, politics, economics, whatever — as long as it’s tasteful and interesting. But beware of the profanity filters.

Okay, the comments are open. Have at it, dear reader.

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35 responses to “Notre-Dame Open Thread

  1. RE: Notre Dame fire — No words can describe our loss, regardless of our thoughts concerning religion. Notre Dame transcends religious belief.

  2. Holding The Line In Florida

    @retiredsciguy. Yeah just think of the history that has been damaged or lost. Sad day in human history. Still they can rebuild. Looks like the facade and towers are saved. Sure hope it doesn’t turn out to be arson. That would really bite!

  3. docbill1351

    My resident geologist says that Notre Dame is built out of chalk, although most descriptions use the more general term, limestone. Still, both are weakened by fire, so it will remain to be seen how it will be reconstructed, if at all.

  4. Just seen President Macron speaking off the cuff from the fire scene, on French TV. Most impressive. I’m not sure that any of our politicians in the UK could achieve that kind of dignity and fluency. He promised a national subscription to fund the rebuilding.

  5. When I see scaffolding about a building and then a fire I think something like an errant welder’s torch. Whatever the cause a horrific loss of our shared cultural heritage. I hope they are able to rebuild even if its never quite the same.

  6. How about manuscripts, art work, historic artifacts being destroyed? What about the stained-glass windows?

  7. Michael Fugate

    I am sure the DI will tell us a lot of intelligent design will go into restoration…
    Too bad their designer of the universe didn’t step in to stop the fire – too busy mutating DNA?

  8. I was just wondering if Noah had dry dog food. Like IAMS or one of those high protein kibbles. I was using a kibble made from kangaroo meat with KULA, the best ever Golden Doodle. She loved it mixed with a can of a GOOD quality canned dog food. Designer dog food is an emerging market in upscale bedroom communities.
    And Vespas. I propose that all regular Curmudgeon readers get a Vespa.
    Or a Ducati HyperMotard. Noah could have used a Vespa to putter around the different decks in the ark. The hoofed animals deck. The birds and snakes deck. The poop deck. Wink wink.

  9. docile. Don’t take your geologist for granite. He or she may have faults. My sediments lie with the geosciences. Cheers. Can’t talk now. Listening to “Sherry ” on Pandora. 6th grade.

  10. And THIS…. is why we don’t throw all the oily rags into a container, folks.

  11. Charles Deetz ;)

    Four days till political chaos. Who cares about an old building

  12. docbill1351

    @och My source is always correct. By definition. So, that’s that.

  13. @docbill Got it .. My sediments exactly.

  14. So Macron promises a rebuild. I wonder if they will use original materials, or this time opt for fireproof — i.e., steel roof girders and rafters, steel spire, etc.

  15. @Retiredsciguy

    ” I wonder if they will use original materials,”

    As a woodworker, I’m more concerned if they’ll use hand tools to plane and mortise and tenon the joints. And those should be pegged tenons, not glued!

  16. It seems that the roof was a wooden frame covered with lead, durable enough to last 800 years. Surprising to me.

  17. B Lilly – just another example of why Thomas is unqualified to be on the Court. The Pepperdine Law School is the principal reason why the University has the reputation it does whereas Seaver College, the much more reasonable undergraduate school, is responsible for its top 50 academic ranking.

  18. @CharlesD wonders: “Who cares about an old building”?
    The French, obviously. It took 80+ years before they were satisfied and I’m sure that they will take 80 years again, if necessary, to get back its former grandeur.

  19. Dutch YEC-organization Logos.nl has a dreamjob for ya!

    https://logos.nl/logos-zoekt-een-tweede-medewerker-kent-u-iemand/

    “Logos Instituut zoekt een creatief organisatietalent ter versterking van ons team”, zo luidde de kop van een advertentie die wij plaatsten op onze website. We zijn op zoek naar een tweede medewerker! We merken dat Logos Instituut in een behoefte voorziet. We krijgen verschillende aanvragen voor spreekbeurten binnen, zijn actief op scholen, organiseren congressen en excursies en spreken regelmatig met bijbelgetrouwe academici. Wekelijks wordt de lijst van activiteiten groter. Hoogste tijd om op zoek te gaan naar uitbreiding van ons team!”

    “Logos Institution is looking for a creative organization talent to reinforce our team. We are looking for a second colleague! We have noticed that Logos Institution satisfies a need. We receive several requests for lectures, are active on schools, organize conventions and excursions and talk regularly with academics who are faithful to the Bible. Every weak the list of activities grows! Highest time to start looking for someone to join our team!”

    Thanks to the tireless efforts of our dear SC (though I’m not modest enough to deny my helping hand) many regulars here understand creacrap well enough to qualify in that respect. I guess some have the organizational skills they are looking for. Zetopan, ChrisS, TomS, Docbill, Rsg, what are you all waiting for?
    Oh wait – I guess neither of you is evangelical, baptist or pentecostal.

  20. OK, you evilutionist heathens, maybe this video will convince you. Don’t say Lord YHWH (unlike Lord Sauron and Lord Voldemort, to name just two) doesn’t show mercy on you! You get more chances to return from your erroneous path than you deserve! Watch it!

    https://logos.nl/wondertje-in-de-dop/

    “Is dat geen lofzang op Gods schepping?”
    Isn’t that an ode to God’s creation?

  21. This is probably a creationist slip:

    https://logos.nl/worden-er-steeds-meer-sterren-zichtbaar/

    “John Hartnett oppert dat het hele universum om z’n as draait, waardoor je met behulp van Einsteins relativiteitstheorie kunt uitrekenen dat sterren en sterrenstelsels die ver bij de aarde vandaan staan ouder zijn omdat de tijd daar langzamer loopt.”
    JH suggests that the entire universe revolves arounds it’s exists. So you can calculate using Einstein’s Theory of Relativity that stars and galaxies far away from earth are older because time goes slower there.
    What the author (a Dutch YEC expert on astronomy, ie a nobody elsewhere – also an engineer) says is that those stars and galaxies are older than they look. Double fail – it doesn’t make much sense plus it argues against his predetermined conclusion.

  22. Almost forgot to google that John Hartnett. Our Aussie regulars can be proud!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hartnett_(physicist)

    Isn’t it wonderful what happens when Dutch and Aussie creacrappers work together? Also note that Hartnett is another babyboomer. Maybe someone should start an Encyclopedia of non-American loons?

  23. @FrankB
    Is he saying that the axis about which the universe is rotating is somewhere near to us?
    And the problem with YEC arises well within our Milky Way galaxy. As I recall, and I am too lazy to check, we are 30,000 light years from the center of our galaxy. The GAIA mission is returning direct parallax measurements of millions of stars far beyond 10,000 ly, with no concern about the large scale universe.

  24. No, he isn’t saying so, but I suppose it’s what he thinks. Otherwise (at least in Dutch) he should have written that it’s the Earth that rotates.
    Btw, exists iso axis is one of the silliest typos I ever made.

  25. I’ve always wanted to be a double agent. It reeks of glamour, and to hell with the danger! Yes! I believe I could pass as a creationist, and go deep cover into one of their many organizations. And (heh heh!) subvert them from within, like a cute but devious mole.

    I’d not been aware of Hartnett before, probably because he’s with CMI, and the Curmudgeon no doubt has his hands full with AiG, ICR, and the DI, among others. But it’s always inspiring to see creationist loons from all corners of the flat earth bonding in the spirit of comradely stupidity. Creationism, as an international language, has succeeded where other utopian dreams — such as Esperanto — have failed.

  26. There is an essay by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on the web pages of The Guardian
    “The way Americans regard sports heroes versus intellectuals speaks volumes”
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/apr/15/the-way-americans-regard-sports-heroes-versus-intellectuals-speaks-volumes

    “… the last few years have produced a rising anti-intellectualism, starting with facts, science and logic. Anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers, even flat-earthers are on the rise. Part of the reason for this is the promotion of fuzzy thinking as a positive political statement. All those people who were told in school that their opinions lack any meaningful support and are filled with logical fallacies can now band together in shared ignorance masquerading as conservative ethos. They get to thumb their noses at the “elite” thinkers.”

  27. @och will Yeah, I had rocks in my head to get involved with a geologist, structural one at that. I know my place as the dip lest I get a strike along my joints. However, I know my boundaries mainly emptying the dishwasher, stacking plates so they don’t slip.

  28. The latest news from Paris says that the three rose windows are safe. There must have been an exceptional fire fighting action!

  29. “The latest news from Paris says that the three rose windows are safe. ”

    Could it be…. a MIRACLE? 🙂

    I was thinking, used to be that God could burn bushes without damaging them. It would seem the bar has lowered for miracles!

    (srsly, I was expecting the lead in those windows would melt)

  30. What God worth his salt would permit the sublime Cathedral of Notre Dame burn, but spares Disneyland from the flames?

  31. God’s has changed his name from YHWH via Allah to Disney.

  32. Well docile. It would appear your geologist has the upper hand. Hurray for geologists. Well said…

  33. How spell check makes docile out of doc bill I’ll never know. Sigh. Its a miracle !!! The talking donkey did it !!!!!!!