The Curmudgeon’s 2020 Presidential Debate Salon

We haven’t yet found any evolution news to write about today, but while we’re searching, we don’t want to ignore the fact that tonight is the first debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden before the 2020 US Presidential election. It’s scheduled to start at 9:00 PM, Eastern time zone, which is 8 hours from now. We assume it’ll be on all the news channels, and there will be websites where you can watch it on-line. You don’t need us to give you any links.

We doubt that there are any undecided voters this year. Feelings are so intense that even if the debate is interrupted because one of the candidates wets his pants, starts crying, and runs from the stage, none of his supporters will switch to the other guy. Nevertheless, we all want our candidate to do well, and we hope it’s the other guy that runs away crying.

This isn’t one of our usual Free Fire Zones. We’d like your comments to be limited to the topic of the election — which involves an ark-load of topics. Within that context, you may banter, babble, bicker, bluster, blubber, blather, blab, blurt, burble, boast — say what you will. But avoid flame-wars and beware of the profanity filters.

We now throw open the comments to you, dear reader. Have at it.

Copyright © 2020. The Sensuous Curmudgeon. All rights reserved.

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38 responses to “The Curmudgeon’s 2020 Presidential Debate Salon

  1. Even in a good year, I don’t watch such political theater, especially when like many, my choice is already made. Besides, Trump is not campaigning against Biden but rather against the electoral process. He is a master of employing Roger Stone’s Rules –

  2. UK’s Channel 4 News is covering the story of how in 2016 the Trump campaign, using data obtained via Cambridge Analytica, targeted ads at Clinton supporters, not to win them over, but to discourage them from voting. And I saw myself a FaceBook campaign of faked ads, aimed at leftists, pretending to come from Democratic HQ and saying “Vote for Hillary. She’ll be tough on cannabis”

    Bulshit presents a special problem. If you try and stamp it out, you end up spreading it. I don’t know of any good counter-tactic

  3. One possible counter-tactic is mocking. Trump cannot stand to not be seen as anything but the biggest winner in everything. Thus rather than trying to counter his endless lies, belittling him would likely get under his skin. I kinda hope Biden uses this with lines like “Well, I note that you paid more for your adulterous relationship with porn stars than you paid in taxes.”

  4. Which raises the question on how do you debate a liar?

  5. Trump cannot handle anything bigger than himself. He could have stood up in February: “Folks, that virus is dangerous. It is transmitted through air. It’s not like a normal flu. We better listen to our experts”. People of all convictions, all parties would have rallied around him. But he simply can’t do that.

  6. “we all want our candidate to do well”
    No, because I don’t care. I’ve never been less interested in the American presidential elections than this time.

    “we hope it’s the other guy that runs away crying.”
    If anything I rather hope that both will run away, whether crying or not.

  7. For people who are devoted to the Bible, there are the passages in Deuteronomy 17:14ff, Proverbs 29 and 2 Peter 2.

  8. FrankB,you remind me of something Azimov said. If you think the Earth’s flat, you’re wrong.If you think the Earth’s a sphere, you’re wrong. But if you think both those views are equally wrong, you’re more wrong than either

  9. With his refulgent abscess of a forged face topped by a yellowed crown of thinning hair on a cone of spun sugar offered as cotton candy to the political, fawning delinquents pandering to the gratuitous reflex of a segment of Americans to willingly elect a known sociopath to the off ice of the President of the United States, one can only celebrate the false stance of a person crushed by a benevolence never given, his youth scoured by revelations of selfish lies and the meretricious grants of the most distant of sweet remembrance that invalidated the actual places found in the discourses of a plundered future.
    One’s remorse of postures validated by electorates famished of schooled and factual realities is one that can only be punctured by a graceful predicate of the overthrow of religious and political demagogues who falter before truth and the actuality of experience.
    With a conclusion of ambition fostered by the descendants of the southern aristocrats of slavery who lost a war they have never acknowledged in the moralistic sense, it begets a narrative that has evolved to what they now decry as the forfeit of states’ rights to manage their own determinations of societal beliefs, and that racial differences are religious fundamentals.
    No wonder White Trash values have become an infatuation of the ignorant
    and the functionally illiterate.

  10. According to polls, 11% of the electorate is undecided. That’s the official count, though – I suspect that it’s much closer to 0%, as our gracious host supposes.

  11. @Douglas E
    One of my bosses – actually a couple of levels up from my status – was addicted to lying. He had to lie, even when it was not to his advantage, on some trivial point where nobody cares. I guessed that it was just a show of power: “I am lying. You know that I am lying, but you can’t do anything about it.”

  12. TomS – good point, but I think that his mind is so addled that he believes anything he says is true.

  13. Less than two hours until it begins. This is so exciting that I’m falling asleep.

  14. chris schilling

    @Kae Quante: “No wonder White Trash values…”

    You Martians are racist!

  15. @Dougas E
    I really don’t know the motivation. I have had acquaintances who have told me that they know that they are lying. And there is always the possibility of dementia in the form that they have perceptions which tell them stuff?

  16. Trump’s been a con man for decades, and now he is at the top of his game. Hopefully his ruse will soon come to an end.

  17. chris schilling

    “Jerry, just remember: it’s not a lie…if you believe it.”

    — the wisdom of George Constanza

  18. @chris schiling
    Is it a lie if …
    1. I don’t care whether or not?
    2. they don’t deserve an answer?
    3. I am too important to be bothered about it?
    4. those voices tell me to say it?
    5. …

  19. @PaulB: “But if you think both those views are equally wrong, you’re more wrong than either.”
    To quote a Spartan: if.
    Also – was Hitler less wrong than Stalin? Or the other way round?
    That question doesn’t interest me either, you see. But I wish you all possible fun wasting your time finding an answer. I prefer other hobbies.
    That applies to the American elections as well.

    What I do think interesting is applying Azimov’s argument to my specific case. Here we go!

    If you think Donald the Clown is a good man, I am wrong. If I think Joe the Unprincipled a good candidate, I am wrong. But if you think both them are equally unfit, I am more wrong than either

    From which follows you think I am more right wing than both.

  20. Meh, I’m not fully awake yet.

    If I think Donald the Clown a good candidate, I am wrong. If I thnk Joe the Unprinciple a good candidate, I am wrong. But if I think both of them are equally unfit, I am more wrong than either.

    From which it follows that PaulB thinks I am more wrong, ie more right wing than both. At the other hand I’d agree that I am even less fit for the White House than either.

  21. The Demoncrats at this point is destructive as the the rePUKEians cuz they both brake glass!! But one glass holds gas and the other is water. So not near the same! Already voted straight Demoncrat ticket, cuz even a serial killer is better than the trumpig!!

  22. I know you said, “We’d like your comments to be limited to the topic of the election”, but after having watched the entire 90 minutes of the “Debate”, i felt it needed a comment or two. Basically it was fiasco, not a debate in any way, shape, or form. Trump made a mockery of the whole process. They should cancel the rest of the debates.

  23. Charley Horse X

    I learned zero from the debate. Trump…as expected…tried to control it. Biden…I wanted him to pull out a water pistol filled with blood and blast Trump with it.

  24. Michael Fugate

    Not sure if anyone might be interested in this webinar…
    Evolution meets creationism in the classroom: getting beyond the “Either-God,-Or-Science” paradigm
    Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 3:00 PM ET

  25. “if anyone might be interested in this webinar”
    More so than in JoeB vs. Donald the Clown.
    Unfortunately when I click the link I get the message

    “This email is only viewable in the web viewer when clicking through the original email”

  26. Format for the next Trump – Biden debates:

    1) Soundproof booths;
    2) Mute the mic of the one not entitled to speak;
    3) Camera on just the entitled speaker;
    4) Laughing gas piped into the booth upon lying.

    Number 4) might present a problem with the Secret Service, but would certainly be entertaining and boost ratings.

  27. If they don’t go with the soundproof booths, I like Charley Horse X‘s idea of the water pistol — but just filled with water and in the hand of the moderator, to be used on any interruptor. I’d still go with mutable mics and camera on just the speaker.

  28. I agree with retiredsciguy, except make that a Super Soaker (TM). A mere water pistol would never get Trump’s attention.

  29. I can only describe it as a brawl in the gutter. If any other sitting President had behaved in that fashion, I could imagine the nation being repelled, perhaps giving him some points for pugnacity, but saying among themselves, “That’s not how a President behaves”.

    I, too, think that the Head of State of a great power should display gravitas, but, as a foreigner, I would point out that this is what happens when the office of Head of State, with its need for impartial dignity, is combined with the office of Chief Executive of the Government, with its need for effective engagement in politics. I commend the notion of a limited and constitutional Monarchy to the House.

    But the reaction to Trump behaving in that deplorable manner is likely to be far more muted. Trump is Trump. The abrasiveness and pugnacity, the willingness to get down and dirty – that’s why he was elected. They are features, not bugs. He was elected precisely because he isn’t polite, because he is no “statesman”, because he doesn’t give a rat’s for genteel restraint. Like it or not, he was elected because there’s a large slice of the American heartland that has had it up to here with the twee intellectuariat and the Marxist professors and the Beltway and the swamp and the not calling a spade a bloody shovel, and the slow erosion of their jobs, their income, their security, their kids’ futures. I don’t think they’re right. You don’t think they’re right. Doesn’t matter. That’s what they think, and they vote.

    And they’ll vote again. On this performance, deplorable as it is, they’ll vote for Trump, and he’ll get a second term.

  30. @Dave Luckett: Tsk. tsk, for reality is always a chimera of reality, and there is never a forgiveness of its truth, for there stands the ambitions of liars and political whores to bespatter the highways of history with the road-kill of empires and nascent countries who thought otherwise. You must garb yourself in a hair-shirt and the abnegation of wisdom and the placement of a begging bowl of a monk’s poverty to find the wisdom of all that.

  31. Charles Deetz ;)

    A fine bunch of commenters here, pretty much of a similar mind and making reasonable comments worth reading. Top point, I think it’s that DJT is running against the election, a Douglas E points out. Like Hambo coming after athiests, and not evolutionists, but worse.

  32. Dave Luckett

    No, kae, I must arm myself with a dictionary and a thesaurus before attempting to disentangle what you write. It appears to amount to “Politics is icky and nasty. I don’t want to think about it.” Sure, kae. A wise decision in your case, I have no doubt.

    However, my father used to remark that there was only one way to affect any decision, and that was to show up at the meeting. I didn’t know what he meant, back then – he was talking about the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church of NSW – but I get it now.

  33. @Dave Luckett: Nice stuff, Dave. You grab those horns of dilemmas that have a shaky premise and thoughtfully grant it’s emptiness and the shallow depths of a reasonable consequence that has stricken tomorrows of believability. Talking it through with footsteps that have to be followed to find the way is what the ancient’s speak to us now in dreams and symbols and the brash speak of naked truths. Life is empty without it. It’s nice to hear it.

  34. I’m not sure if anyone is still following this thread. I’d just point out Saturday, October 3, 2020 Saturday Night Live premiers. Jim Carrey is going full prosthetics and wigs to do Joe Biden. Should be quite entertaining.

  35. Cult 45 is in full spin mode. “Wallace kept interrupting Trump”, etc. Can’t wait to see what SC thinks. Has his support waivered even an iota?