Wide Open Free Fire Zone

Once again the creationists are boring, so we’re declaring another Intellectual Free-Fire Zone. However, there are a couple of issues out there that you may want to talk about.

First, there’s the U.S. Supreme Court decision of Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization that overruled Roe v. Wade. Our link is to the Wikipedia article, but they link to the actual decision if you want to read it.

Creationists are thrilled. Ol’ Hambo wrote about the decision a few days ago: US Supreme Court Decision on Abortion. He begins by saying:

The court’s momentous decision, while it doesn’t outlaw abortion, has given Christians a timely teaching moment as each state will now be considering its own laws regarding abortion. This is an opportunity to present the powerful message that from both a biblical and scientific perspective, life begins at the moment of fertilization.

Impressive, huh? The Discoveroids have something else to brag about — see Intelligent Design Gets Its Own Car, written by Klinghoffer. He says:

[O]ur colleague Daniel Reeves points out that intelligent design has its own car, or cars: Volkswagen’s ID series, which are electric vehicles that have gone through several iterations. They’re now on the 2022 ID.4. Yes, it stands for “intelligent design.”

Amazing, isn’t it? And this isn’t the first time. A few years ago, when Volkswagen came out with the ID.3, we wrote A Victory for the Discovery Institute. We can understand how Volkswagen may have blundered once in naming a new car — but twice? And there may have been an ID.2 and ID.1.

Anyway, that’s all we can find. Therefore, we’re declaring another Intellectual Free-Fire Zone.

You know the rules. Feel free to use the comments for the discussion of pretty much anything — science, politics, economics, whatever — as long as it’s tasteful and interesting. Banter, babble, bicker, bluster, blubber, blather, blab, blurt, burble, boast — say what you will. But avoid flame-wars and beware of the profanity filters.

We now throw open the comments to you, dear reader. Have at it!

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12 responses to “Wide Open Free Fire Zone

  1. I just read
    Jason Rosenhouse
    The Failures of Mathematical Anti-Evolutionism
    Cambridge U. Press 2022
    BTW, it is not overly mathematical. IMHO it can be read by someone without deep mathematical knowledge.
    I am interested in the argument that is presented near the end, chapter 8,
    Section 8.2 “can intelligence build complex adaptations”.
    “… he is constantly telling us that the simplest biological processes are way beyond the puny contrivances of human engineers.
    “If that is true, then why should I not conclude that intelligence is fundamentally incapable of accomplishing what ID propenents attribute to it?”
    I find this argument persuasive.
    What I would like to know, who first came up with it?

  2. Stephen Kennedy

    As long as ID proponents continue to fail to explain, or even address the issue, how intelligence transforms its designs into actual physical entities, they will be fundamentally incapable of accomplishing anything worth listening to.

  3. Dave Luckett

    All I can say about the US Supreme Court striking down Roe v Wade is that the Law of Unintended Consequences might supervene. November is not so far away, and a different US House and Senate might be prepared to pass legislative protection of the right to abortion. If so, I understand that the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution provides that laws of the several states could not conflict with it.

    That is to say, while the intention of at least three of the Justices might have been to destroy lawful abortion, the effect might be that it will become specific statute law to allow it, rather than just relying on a court’s ruling on the implication of a provision that doesn’t actually mention it.

    To which I can only add that Australian women have had access to abortion on demand (with some restrictions on how late it can be done, if there’s no other cause) for fifty years or so. They don’t generally go much on blokes telling them what they can and can’t do, and aren’t shy about saying so, either. I shudder to think what they’d do to any male politician or judge who tried to go back on their rights now. I reckon he’d find quick smart that he could reach the top notes after all. And would.

    Sure, there are always outliers, and even here there’s some who’d ban abortion. But they’re pissing into a hurricane, here. Nobody pickets clinics, nobody demonstrates. It’s a dead issue, here.

  4. @Stephen Kennedy In the beginning was the Word, and the Bird was with God, and the Bird is the Word. (The Intelligence speaks the magic Words, which is sufficient.)

  5. Why would anyone consider X, when they make a point of X not being adequate?
    We consistently are told that no design comes close to life. How is that considered an argument for design?
    That is what Rosenhouse is pointing out. I agree. I think that there must be a history of people making that
    point. Does anyone have examples of old-time writing about it?

  6. @David Luckett, I recently did a bunch of research for a play that heavily featured Prohibition, and pretty much everyone responsible for getting that amendment passed thought that it was a total, unassailable victory that would go down for centuries as a good and noble thing. And, well, we know how well that worked out. It’s unfortunate but observable thing that authoritarians and fascists only start to fall apart once they start winning.

  7. Dave Luckett

    dweller42, I don’t know if the parallel to Prohibition is often noted in the US. It seems an inescapable one to me, but perhaps I am oversimplifying, But still, it’s clear that alcohol consumption is, on balance, a terrible scourge, causing unmeasured misery, being found at the root of most violent crime, and a major or even sole factor in calamities and maladies without number. Obviously, any good it does is dwarfed into insignificance by the harm. It should be prohibited, simply on that score alone. For people’s own good. Sure. Yeah, right.

    But the thing is, banning it is worse. So I’m not going to pour the single dram of single-malt at my elbow down the sink.

    That argument should have some traction even with folks who think that abortion is an unmitigated evil. Alas, it doesn’t seem to.

  8. Daniel Reeves points out that intelligent design has its own car, or cars: Volkswagen’s ID series, which are electric vehicles that have gone through several iterations.

    Last I heard, wingnuts think that electric cars are an evil government conspiracy to overthrew the oil industry (or something). It must be a dilemma for them to have an electric car named after them. A good analogy is when you like the Beavis and B***Head movie but the distasteful humor tells you that you should not like it but you surrender to it anyway. Why doesn’t Hollywood just delegate all of the potty humor to Seth Rogan and that way nobody else has to?

  9. By the way don’t tell these guys there is a structural engineering firm called “Intelligent Design Engineering” because they will completely flip their noodles on that one.

  10. Support the coal industry, get an electric car.

  11. Dave Luckett

    Everything is swings and roundabouts, as we say. I’m told that fission reactors using thorium are the coming thing, but I’m hanging out for fusion. One thing’s for sure, though: conserve, use less, sure, use the sun, the wind, the tide, by all means; but if we start to reduce our capacity to generate energy, it can only go backwards from there.

  12. Stupidest Creationist Post Ever (In the PhD astronomer should know better category.) We all know that math is controlled by logic, right? Math is not miracles or divine intervention. That is because the mathematical concept of “2 + 2” is the SAME concept as “4,” so 2 + 2 MUST be 4, it cannot possibly be 3, or 5, or even 3.9999? The Mandelbrot set is the product of more complicated (not very) mathematical operations than 2 + 2, but it too is just ironclad logic in action, with no room for interference, even divine interference.

    So get a load of Lisle’s Atheists CANNOT Explain This Secret Code Seen in Creation Mandelbrot set post, a sound and light show with no sound or any brains either. The pictures are dazzling, and so it the idiot claim that the power of God, rather than the power and creativity of simple math, is behind it all.

    Consider the laziness too. Lisle gives an hour long talk in which all the work was done by others. Nice work if you can get it. Talking to the ignorant is so easy!