You know who Günter Bechly is — a Discovery Institute “senior fellow.” The last time we wrote about him was Discoveroid Günter Bechly Has Been ‘Erased’. His website used to say:
I despise the dogmatic and sometimes even fanatical stance of some evolutionists like P.Z. Myers (Pharyngula blog), Laurence Moran (Sandwalk blog), Jeffrey Shallit (Recursivity blog), Jerry Coyne (Why Evolution is True blog), freelance writer John Farrell, the anonymous coward behind The Sensuous Curmudgeon blog, and other infamous web activists against Intelligent Design and religion. [Emphasis supplied.]
Somehow that’s missing from his website now. It doesn’t matter. His latest post at the Discoveroids’ creationist blog is: Human Origins: Out of Africa, or Out of Germany? Here are some excerpts, with bold font added by us for emphasis:
In a recent article at Evolution News [about which we wrote Discoveroids — Human Footprints on Crete] I discussed seven major discoveries in paleoanthropology that have made 2017 a kind of annus horribilis for the established scientific consensus on human evolution. The most recent of these discoveries, fossil human footprints from Crete (Gierliński et al. 2017), was not only out of place in its Mediterranean location. In addition, it is 2.5 million years older than Lucy and the Australopithecus afarensis footprints from Eastern Africa.
Günter suggested that new discoveries were an indication that the entire edifice of evolution was in a state of collapse. Now he says:
At a press conference on October 17, German paleontologist Herbert Lutz from the Mainz State Museum, who happens to be an old friend of mine, announced a sensational discovery [link to an article in German]. In September 2016 two teeth were uncovered from sediments of the Proto-Rhine River near Eppelsheim in Rhenish Hesse, Germany.
We can’t find anything about that in our usual sources, but here’s an article in USA Today: 9.7-million-year-old teeth discovery in Germany could re-write human history. Günter tells us:
The two teeth, an upper left canine and an upper right first molar, clearly belong to an unknown hominoid ape. They have very distinct features that are characteristic of early East African hominin “ape-men” like Ardipithecus ramidus and Australopithecus afarensis. Boom! This raises the notion of an “out-of-place fossil” to a whole new level. Now the cradle of mankind has not only moved from East Africa to Southern Europe but even to Germany, and the age is about three times (!) the age of Lucy, indeed 3-4 million years older than the oldest known putative hominins from Africa (Sahelanthropus and Orrorin).
Perhaps we have a new discovery that requires a revision of the primate time-line. These things happen. Günter continues:
As usual in such cases, the popular science media proclaim another necessary rewriting of the human origins story. … To be clear, however, this is not just another find that merely tweaks our understanding of human origins. It represents nothing less than the final nail in the coffin of the still ruling “Out of Africa” paradigm.
[*Begin Drool Mode*] Ooooooooooooh! [*End Drool Mode*] Günter concludes with this:
This year we could witness the collapse of the scientific consensus in paleoanthropology. … [I]t’s one down, and far from the first, but more to go.
[*Begin Drool Mode*] Ooooooooooooh! [*End Drool Mode*] What does it mean? If humans didn’t evolve in Africa, then maybe Günter ain’t no kin to no monkey. Darwin was a fool!, and the Discoveroids have known The Truth™ all along.
Copyright © 2017. The Sensuous Curmudgeon. All rights reserved.
Was he there? How does he know they’re not pig teeth? How does he know they weren’t faked?
“I’m not dead!”
So what, how does that help intelligent design unless ID is merely opposed to what scientists understand to be currently correct?
I hope I don’t miss the collapse of evolution, I’ve already missed the end of the world at least a dozen times.
the anonymous coward behind The Sensuous Curmudgeon blog,
Sensitive lot those Discoveroids aren’t they? You think they would have gotten used to ridicule by now?
Put this in your search engine: discover old teeth in Germany
Could they have been “planted?”
Does this help Bechley’s “Out of Eden” paradigm? Does he know where Eden is? When Adam and Eve lived there? We want details.
What Bechley said:
“The two teeth, an upper left canine and an upper right first molar, clearly belong to an unknown hominoid ape. They have very distinct features that are characteristic of early East African hominin “ape-men” like Ardipithecus ramidus and Australopithecus afarensis. ”
What the article actually said:
“The groundbreaking knowledge is that we have comparable finds only in East Africa. And these are much, much younger. These species are well known as Ardi and Lucy, and their canines look very similar to the one here from Eppelsheim, ”
“Look very similar to” is quite a bit different to “very distinct features characteristic of —“.
Frankly I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there wasn’t more movement of great apes/hominins between Africa and Europe in the past 10 mya than we suspected. Carnivores and ungulates move back and forwards a lot during that time. Apes might be thought to be more limited to forest environments, so less mobile, but if they were more bipedal/open environment living than the present day great apes (which are highly specialized, not primitive) then it’s not so surprising.
Hey– for a while there, Sensuous, we were infamous!!!
So the ID people say that Adam&Eve& the garden are all BS??? Since these fauxsils put us in germany??
“Grunter” says “I despise the dogmatic and sometimes even fanatical stance of some evolutionists” Sonny, I’m sure there are a lot of things you despise. Fundamentalist science illiterates have long ago given up on logic and science and understanding and prefer dogma. You don’t have to think that way.
Genetic data indicate African origin of modern humans. How far our ancestors or their relatives roamed the continents is a separate, and interesting, question. With their glibness Bechly and his headliners intentionally mislead.
The Imminent Demise of Evolution: The Longest Running Falsehood in Creationism
by Glenn R. Morton
I don’t think we need the opinions of a creationist here. They have a horrible track record when it comes to being right about things scientific.
And as usual they are far from internally consistent in their pronouncements.
So often they deny scientific dating methods for giving results older than about 6000 years, but here they not only are discussing dates nearly 10 million years old without a whimper it also comparing that date to much younger dates.
Also, they are arguing about something they consider “observational” science (where you there?) as if they accepted that form of science.
But then they’re almost never consistent so why expect them to be internally consistent?
I think Bechly’s point was something like this: “If those evolutionists are wrong about humans evolving in Africa, that shows they’re wrong about evolution itself.”
Of course, even if the human lineage originated elsewhere than in Africa, that in no way discredits the theory of evolution itself. Bechly’s logic should embarrass any bright eighth-grader.
My Dear Curmudgeon —
It seems that TomS has dropped a ‘w’ from his link. (Why in the world would he type it out when with just a few mouse clicks he could more easily copy and paste? Go figure.)
I’ll paste it below, but I’m sure he’d appreciate a Gentle Curmudgeonly edit of his Comment.
[*Voice from above*] Good suggestion. It’s done.
From the archive:
1878 “There are some signs of this whimsical theory of Evolution soon taking another phase. Carl Vogt has given hints that perhaps they have, after all, made a mistake as to the line of descent. It may be found, he conjectures, that Man is not descended from the Ape family but from the Dog! “Other theories may soon be heard of–for the human mind is restless under the burthen of mystery.” Thomas Cooper, Evolution, The Stone Book and The Mosaic Record of Creation, (London: Hodder and Stoughton), p. 186-187
I don’t remember how I made that mistake, but I would say that it is a consequence of design rather than the infallible.
Me: …well, I’m from Ohio, but my daughters were born in Georgia and South Carolina.
Creationist: But here’s a picture of your Uncle in California!
Me: Yes, he’s considerably older than me, and he moved there when –
Creationist: To be clear, this is not just another find that merely tweaks our understanding of your kids’ origins.
Me: Umm, we’re related, but he’s not my –
Creationist: It represents nothing less than the final nail in the coffin of the still ruling “Out of Ohio” paradigm.
Me: Final nail? What was the first nail? This is getting weird. I don’t think you understand how this –
Creationist: This year we could witness the collapse of the scientific consensus in your family tree.
Me: [Backs away slowly].
Of course the two other pillars of creacrap, the God of the Gaps fallacy and Paley’s False Watchmaker Analogy do nothing to explain this anachronism either. It should be noted however that YECers like Ol’Hambo and the Good Rev Rives can’t really use this against Evolution Theory. At least Grunter Blehly implicitly recognze that our Earth is a bit older than 6000 years.
1) The fossils have no impact on Out of Africa as a scientific consensus; Out of Africa refers to the origin of Homo sapiens sensu strictu in Africa and its subsequent spread worldwide with some introgression from other Homo populations; the concept that Out of Africa means that all human ancestors of whatever age were African would be a strawman. There has already been paper published arguing that crown group hominids originated in Asia, and the earliest Primates look as if they were North American, or at least Northern Hemisphere.
2) The only report that I find that looks any deeper (ScienceAlert) says that while the canine looks rather like Australopithecus, the second tooth doesn’t, and may not even be hominoid. It links to a preprint that says the same.
What leaves me in complete awe, Curmie, is how you remain anonymous even though we all know your name.
That sir, is a talent you can’t teach.